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If You Don't Do This One Thing, You'll Probably Ruin Thanksgiving. (No Pressure!)

If You Don't Do This One Thing, You'll Probably Ruin Thanksgiving. (No Pressure!)

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More Important Thanksgiving Pro Tips

Give Yourself Permission To Quit

One of my earliest memories of school was an &ldquoAbout Me&rdquo poster I made in kindergarten. Alongside my drawings of a ballerina (my 5-year-old career aspirations), Mr. Rogers (my favorite TV show), and the conglomeration of stick figures that represented my family was a giant plate of food.

I couldn&rsquot pick just one favorite food like my more obedient classmates because my favorite &ldquofood&rdquo was what my family (and so many other Dutch folks) refer to as &ldquoSunday Dinner&rdquo.

For those of you who aren&rsquot Dutch, or who didn&rsquot grow up in my family, Sunday Dinner is a delicious meal eaten around noon after church on Sunday &mdash a roast, ham or steak, served with mashed potatoes and gravy, multiple vegetables, applesauce, rolls, a salad of some sort, and dessert.

The entire meal was conveniently explained by the term &ldquoSunday Dinner&rdquo &mdash which, for my 5-year-old brain, made it a completely logical choice for a &ldquofavorite food&rdquo.

My dad made Sunday Dinner EVERY week, and while you might think I&rsquod tire of eating the same thing every single Sunday for 21 years, I can assure you, I did not!

Dave and I continued the Sunday Dinner tradition after we were married. We both looked forward to a large meal every Sunday &mdash sometimes we&rsquod have family over, sometimes we&rsquod go to one of our parents&rsquo homes, but we always had a version of Sunday Dinner each week.

I assumed Sunday Dinner would be a constant in my life forever and ever. But when we started adding children to our family, I realized how rushed and frazzled Sunday mornings can feel with young children&hellip especially dealing with fussy babies whose schedules were all thrown off because they missed their morning naps.

All of a sudden, Sunday Dinner felt like a chore instead of a delight. It was firmly planted at the bottom of my &ldquohave to do&rdquo list instead of on my much more fun list of &ldquowant to dos&rdquo.

But the thing is, I didn&rsquot HAVE to make Sunday Dinner&hellip at least not on Sunday afternoons.

After several weeks and way too much thought, I decided to temporarily abandon one of my favorite childhood traditions for the sake of my sanity&hellip

Nine years and four children later, we&rsquove never looked back!

Our current Sunday lunches now consist of leftovers, sandwiches, or a very simple slow cooker meal I threw together in the morning.

8 Ways to Trim the Fat (and Extra Calories) from Thanksgiving Dinner

INDYGIRL, "one slice of pizza is always going to have fewer calories than 2 slices of pizza." One trip to the Thanksgiving buffet table is going to have fewer calories than two. Two slices of pie will have fewer calories than three.

According to the Caloric Control Council, the average American eats more than 4,500 calories and 229 grams of fat on Thanksgiving day. That's more than twice the number of calories most of us should eat in an entire day, and enough dietary fat for more than three days!

The overload doesn't just come at the dinner table. Most of us start with a festive breakfast, nibble on snacks while waiting for the turkey to come out of the oven, squeeze in a second helping and sneak into the kitchen for late-night turkey sandwiches.

First let's look at an "average" Thanksgiving day, then I'll share some tips that will allow you to indulge in all your favorites but keep you from feeling so awful and bloated after the meal.

1 large cinnamon roll: 309 calories, 14 g fat
3 slices bacon: 109 calories, 9 g fat
418 calories, 23 g fat

While waiting for the meal:
1 cup homemade eggnog: 343 calories, 19 g fat

The main event:
6 ounces turkey (white meat, with skin): 214 calories, 6 g fat
1 cup mashed potatoes: 162 calories, 1 g fat
1/2 cup green bean casserole: 148 calories, 8 g fat
1 cup sweet potato casserole: 235 calories, 11 g fat
1 cup homemade noodles: 148 calories, 2 g fat
1/2 cup turkey gravy: 61 calories, 3 g fat
2 dinner rolls: 168 calories, 4 g fat
2 pats butter: 72 calories, 8 g fat
1/2 cup stuffing: 178 calories, 9 g fat
1 slice cranberry sauce: 86 calories, 0 g fat
1,471 calories, 52 g fat

Second helpings of your favorites:
1 cup sweet potato casserole: 235 calories, 11 g fat
1/2 cup stuffing: 178 calories, 9 g fat
413 calories, 20 g fat

Dessert after the big meal:
1 slice pumpkin pie: 229 calories, 10 g fat
1/2 slice pecan pie: 245 calories, 13 g fat
1/2 apple pie: 119 calories, 6 g fat
4 T whipped topping: 50 calories, 3 g fat
642 calories, 31 g fat

Sandwich during the game:
6 ounces turkey (white meat, with skin): 214 calories, 6 g fat
2 slices whole-wheat bread: 256 calories, 5 g fat
1 T mayonnaise: 90 calories, 10 g fat
523 calories, 18 g fat

Late-night snack:
1 slice pumpkin pie: 229 calories, 10 g fat
4 T whipped topping: 50 calories, 3 g fat
279 calories, 13 g fat

Total: 4,243 calories, 182 g fat So how you can make sure you have your fill of Grandma's mashed potatoes and Uncle Steve's pumpkin cheesecake but still exercise some control? Here are some tips, culled from personal experience and member tips.

  • Start with a healthy breakfast. In my family, we always eat cinnamon rolls on Thanksgiving and Christmas mornings. I'm not sure how the tradition started, but beginning a long day of eating with sugar isn't the best plan. Those refined carbs will burn off quickly, meaning you'll soon be foraging for food to tide you over until the big meal. Calories saved by eating your usual 300-calorie oatmeal with berries and a cup of milk breakfast: about 100
  • Eat a balanced meal, even if it is larger than usual. Look at the feast above. Stuffing, bread, potatoes, and noodles--all in huge portions. Instead of eating a cup of each one, aim for one to two total servings. I Calories saved: up to 500
  • Be a food snob. At my dad's family's dinner, Gramma Penelope's cloverleaf dinner rolls are a yearly treat. I always save room for one or two, with butter. But if I'm dining with the other side of the family, who serves store-bought rolls, I skip them. I'd rather save room on my plate for mashed potatoes or stuffing. Calories saved by skipping the rolls and butter: 140 calories
  • Don't feel pressured to eat everything. If you focus on creating a balanced plate, you probably won't have room for everything. And, let's face it, do you really like every food on the table? (Don't tell, but green bean casserole turns my stomach. I politely decline it every year.) Calories saved by skipping that, along with any other dish you don't like: up to 500, depending on the dish
  • Skip seconds. When family favorites only appear on the table once a year, it's hard to resist them. Take your time, slow down, and savor your first helping. Does anyone really feel actual hunger after the first round of Thanksgiving dinner? Probably not. Let your food settle, and save your appetite for pie. Calories saved: about 400 as listed above up to 1,500 if you eat an entire second meal
  • Taste everything. Thanksgiving feasts are just that, feasts, and a chance to try a variety of foods. But, if you take just a couple of bites--rather than a full scoop--of each dish, you'll still get to experience all the foods you love. Calories saved: up to 1,000
  • Treat dessert as a snack, not part of the meal. Mmm, pies. They're such an integral part of most Thanksgiving celebrations. But most of us consider them to be an ending to the meal. What if, instead of eating pie immediately after dinner, we waited until it was snack time? And what if we only had a small sliver of each one? Calories saved: up to 400 depending on the size of your slices
  • Skip the grazing. A turkey sandwich here, a slice of pie there, and a cup of eggnog, too. Those extras add up. Calories saved by skipping them: up to 700

Do you use any of these tips? Do you pay attention to calorie counts and nutrition on Thanksgiving?


Take the meat out of the refrigerator at least 4 hours before cooking. This allows the meat to evenly cook inside and out.

Calculate the initial cooking time by allowing 5 minutes per pound of meat. For example, a 5 pound roast will need 25 minutes of initial cooking time while a 9 pound roast would need to initially cook for 45.

Using a digital meat thermometer is A MUST! Part of cooking a prime rib includes leaving the oven door shut for hours. Unless you&rsquore able to position your manual thermometer so it&rsquos still in view through a closed oven door, spend an extra few bucks and go digital. You won&rsquot regret it.

You can&rsquot go wrong with the rub! We heavy up on garlic and thyme, but if rosemary is your thing feel free to double the amount we call for.

Plan out your cooking schedule so you leave ample time to cook your prime rib roast to your preferred doneness. Also, the side dishes we cook usually take 30 minutes. While our meat is resting we have the side dishes prepped and ready to pop in the oven the minute the meat is removed.

While not mandatory, we like to bone and tie our Prime Rib so it&rsquos easier to cut after being cooked. If you&rsquore not sure how to do this, watch this You Tube video. It&rsquos incredibly easy to do.

New model ovens can cool down faster than older models due to the internal fan. If you find your oven is too cool after the 2 hour wait time, turn the oven back on to 500. Only keep it on until the oven gets back up to 500, then turn it off. Again &ndash keep the OVEN DOOR closed to keep the heat in. As long as you have your digital thermometer you have nothing to fear!

Still have questions? Feel free to leave a comment before and we&rsquore happy to answer!

Why you should try making this lamb kleftiko/Greek roast lamb

  • This isn&rsquot a recipe you can have on the table in an hour. But it IS very hands-off once you&rsquove spent 15 minutes preparing everything. Sit the meat on top of the veggies (a Le Creuset Dutch oven or similar is perfect &ndash they are on the expensive side but they literally last a life time). Then pop into the oven and plop yourself on the sofa with your Netflix series of choice!
  • Following on from the point above&hellip this is a 4 hour roast lamb. Some roast lamb recipes require 7 or more hours of roasting. Win!
  • You have the usual Greek flavour suspects in this slow cooked Greek lamb recipe (lemon, oregano, garlic&hellip) but cinnamon adds a surprising but also characteristically Greek depth of flavour. You&rsquoll love it!
  • It&rsquos perfect for feeding &ndash and impressing &ndash a large family or mini crowd. With bread and salad on the side you can safely serve 6.
  • Did I mention it&rsquos fall-apart delicious?

Brussels sprouts, apple and pomegranate salad

• As I realized last week, what makes big meals (we had 16 people) scary isn’t the cooking as much as the sheer volume of it all and the logistics required to manage them. I mean, who here has a kitchen that was built to feed 16? Trust me, it’s not you, it’s your kitchen making things hard.

• Thus the more time you spend plotting things out, the less stressful it will be. Because I’m Team Casserole, i.e. I prefer dishes that are deep and bubbly, can be made well in advance and reheat well, they’re all fairly forgiving of too long or short warming times. Too long, they get a little extra crunchy and toasted on top (yum), too little, they still pack a lot of warmth inside, even if they’re not bubbling hot. I warmed all of the dishes before the turkey went in and then slid in one or two while it roasted. When the turkey came out and we needed 30 minutes to rest and carve it, all the sides went back in to warm.
• Everything that can be done in advance, should be, and as early as possible. You’re doing it for you. When we have a lot of people over, this often leads to me quite over-exhausting myself the night before getting everything prepped that can be, but then I wake up rested and we’re 80% there. It’s not actually a stressful day, which means we’re far more likely to enjoy the party. If I can’t finish prep the night before, I’ll do it in the morning. It’s essential to me that there’s a little window of vegging/non-cooking time between prepping stuff and cooking the stuff that must be done at the last-minute. It’s also a great time to change into something fresh.
• All the pies were made earlier in the week and either went into the fridge (pecan) or freezer (pumpkin) until needed.
• Finally, I think we should all buy each other trivets for Christmukkah. I have… 4? What kind of Thanksgiving has only 4 hot dishes coming out of the kitchen? None we want to be at, thank you very much.

About That Turkey
• Turkeys are amusingly hard to find a week before Thanksgiving.
Brining is a delicious nightmare. I know a lot of people don’t do it. I know you don’t need to. I know there are less-insane options, like dry-brining. But I am really not hugely into turkey to begin with because I always find it dry and often flavorless. And I don’t want a little overcooking to ruin it. Thus: brining. Oh, but what a comedy it was and by comedy, I mean cry-laugh emoji. It involved a 19.5-pound bird, 1 of these bags and 2.5 gallons of brine, which turned out to create a forceful enough pressure on the bag to pop it open. Mopping was involved. Then I got it into the fridge (40 pounds, no easy feat and yet somehow still easier than that time I had to carry my 20-pounder out of the grocery store sideways with an arced back… life math be crazy) and discovered that the bottom had a tiny hole in it and I don’t know if normal people whose mothers were not microbiologists list salmonella among their greatest fears, but raw turkey juice everywhere in the fridge dripping into the produce drawers required a hazmat-suit level of cleaning until I could stop worrying.
Where’s the recipe, Deb? We were so happy with the turkey but I cannot in good conscience share with you a recipe for something so epic that I’ve only made once. I mean, what if I missed something major and ruin all of your holidays? So, I promise, it’s coming and it’s going to be worth the wait.

The Menu

• Ina Garten’s Baked Fontina (I hope to share a more budgeted version of this soon)
• Corn Muffins (brought by a friend)
• A Giant Kale Caesar made with a riff on this dressing. I’d intended to make this salad, however.
• A Roast Turkey Mash-Up That Was About 50% Thomas Keller, 30% Gourmet and 20% Alton Brown
• Cathy Barrow’s Challah Stuffing With Mushroom and Celery with homemade challah, because crazy things happen in my freezer
• Green Bean Casserole with Crispy Onions (doubled)
• Roasted Delicata Squash with Brown Butter, Lime and Pepitas, except I ran out of time so they were just roasted
• Root Vegetable Gratin
• Baked Beans (brought by a friend)
• Ree Drummond’s Twice-Baked Potato Casserole (brought by a friend)
• Cranberry Sauce (brought by a friend, the one who taught me to make my own back in the day)
• Cheesecake-Marbled Pumpkin Slab Pie
• A Very Large Pecan Pie
• By the way, we made everything above except the gravy and obviously the turkey vegetarian simply by using vegetable stock it wasn’t a challenge and nobody missed out on a thing. For the twice-baked potatoes, an area was left bacon-free on top.


• Do not underestimate the power of one really great, crunchy salad, the perfect contrast to all the butter-drenched and gluten-full wonders across the table. It goes quickly. I’m sharing today the salad I’d intended to make I think it’s the perfect last-minute addition to any menu and so easy to bring with you from home. I guarantee the host will appreciate it.

• Finally, ask me anything! I feel like I know 100x as much about Thanksgiving as I did 72 hours ago and most of what I did is very fresh in my head. I’m happy to answer any questions you have in the comments below. I’ll probably attack them mostly this evening, so don’t fret if you don’t get an immediate response.


Brussels Sprouts, Apple and Pomegranate Salad

  • Servings: 4 to 6
  • Time: 30 minutes
  • Source:Adapted from Michael Solomonov's Zahav
  • 1/2 large red onion, diced small
  • 2 tablespoons red wine vinegar
  • 2 teaspoons ground sumac
  • 1/4 teaspoon kosher salt, plus more to season salad
  • 2 cups shredded brussels sprouts
  • 1/2 cup fresh pomegranate seeds (from about 1/2 a large one)
  • 1/2 a large unpeeled apple, cored and diced (I used Granny Smith, the book recommends Pink Lady or Honeycrisp)
  • Juice of half a lemon, plus more to taste
  • 1 1/2 to 2 tablespoons honey, plus more to taste
  • 1/4 cup olive oil
  • 3/4 cup toasted, cooled walnuts, lightly crushed or coarsely chopped
  • Ground chipotle chile pepper, urfa biber peppers, hot smoked paprika or another chile flake, to taste

Combine all salad ingredients, including red onions and their pickling liquid, in a medium bowl and season to taste with salt and red pepper. Taste and adjust ingredients as desired — I’ve seen versions of the recipe with more honey, olive oil and lemon I didn’t need them but you might find you do.

This salad can be prepped ahead, but I’d keep the dressing off of it until at most an hour before serving so it doesn’t discolor the sprouts.

Homemade Vick’s Vapor Shower Discs

1 cup baking soda
1/2 cup cornstarch**
1/3-1/2 cup water (You may need to add more or less.)
15 drops of eucalyptus essential oil or 2-3 tsp. Vick’s Vapor Rub* (you can also add other oils like peppermint or camphor 15 drops each)

Mix using enough water to make a thick paste. You can pour into muffin tins lined with papers, make small balls and set on a plate or put into a silicone ice cube tray or muffin tray. Let them set for at least 12 hours or overnight to AIR dry on counter. Remove from papers or silicone trays and store in an airtight container.

When ready to use, place a disc on the floor of your shower and let the water run on it while showering.

*Essential oils can be expensive. If you don’t want to buy a lot of oils for this recipe, you can buy 1 bottle of the generic vapor rub and just use a couple of teaspoons in this mixture instead.

**You can leave the cornstarch out of the Homemade Vick’s Vapor Shower Discs. I put it in because it helps hold them together better.

Click here to get our Dining On A Dime Cookbooks, with tasty recipes and great tips to make your life easier and save you money!

Mattresses or Upholstery

Start by vacuuming the entire item, then toss the vacuum filter and the bag when you're through to prevent mildew spores from escaping into the air the next time you vacuum. If any stains remain, sponge the surface with a cloth moistened in 1 cup rubbing alcohol and 1 cup warm water &mdash but do a spot test on a hidden area first to make sure the fabric won't get damaged. To rinse, do a second wipe with a water-dampened sponge. Sun dry the sofa or mattress for several hours to remove odors or use a fan. Spray with a disinfectant like Lysol to kill spores that can linger in thick padding. If your furniture still smells musty or stains reappear, throw the item out.

6. Use Baking Soda

Cook’s Illustrated explains how baking soda alkalizes the surface of the meat, hampering the proteins&apos bonds and making the meat more tender. Many people love this method, but some complain that even after rinsing, a vaguely alkaline taste remains.

Which meat or cuts work best? Any kinds, but since it does affect both the taste and the texture of the meat, use only the cheapest, toughest cuts. Also, since it only works on the surface, this method should only be used on the smallest, thinnest, bite-sized pieces.

How should I use the baking soda?

  1. Coat and rub the meat with baking soda by holding a tablespoon of it in your hand and sprinkling a thin layer OR dissolve the baking soda in water and submerge the meat.
  2. Let it rest on the counter for 15-20 minutes. If you leave it longer, it won&apost hurt the meat, but it won&apost make it more tender, either.
  3. Rinse thoroughly to remove all the baking soda, since it affects texture and taste (but dry the meat thoroughly before you cook it if you want it to brown).

Wash or knock off all the excess salt before cooking.

32 thoughts on &ldquo Sex, Consent, and Gilmore Girls: A Closer Look at Rory’s Boyfriends &rdquo

I always liked Logan best because he seemed like much of a match for Rory from the moment they debated in front of her room. He always did seem to respect her more out of all of them. It drives me nuts when people are so adamantly Team Jess, because I would be willing to bet that none of those people would want a Jess to date their teenage daughter!

Thanks Jana. I love the idea of thinking about which person you would be okay with dating your daughter. That can be so different from who you would be attracted to.

I cried the last time jess saw rory it was so sad because i liked jess but he wasn’t a very good bf because all he ever wanted to do was just make out.

Just to nitpick here – In Keg!Max! Rory says “wait” twice, not “no”. I know that in 2016 anything that isn’t “yes” is “no”, but I don’t believe that ASP wanted her watchers to think of Jess as an attempted rapist. You’re correct in saying he does not have consent and persists but I feel like if you want this article to be unbiased you should make that change.

Kate – Thanks for the nitpick, I’ve re-watched the scene, and you are right. I’ve updated the article above where I had it wrong.

Based on the treatment of this as the show goes on, I agree ASP did not want her watchers to think Jess was attempting to rape Rory. That said, it felt like a forced attempt for sex to me the first time I watched it – accidentally and because he did not have the idea of consent right in his mind, but it happened none the less. “Wait” does not mean “keep going,” and thus cannot be considered consent.

The funny thing is, I like Jess, and want to see him happy, just not with Rory because of this.

This article, and this comment in specifically were really lovely. I appreciate a lot how fair you are to all the characters, especially that you consider how their background plays into their behavior. However, the fact that you still were adamant about consent and a strong, female voice was clear. I love Jess, and I think he’s grown, but this was such a needed article. So well done!

Dean is just creepy to me now. I liked him in the first season but when he became possessive of Rory in season 2 it reminded me of my ex who didn’t like me mentioning anyone’s name that I worked with unless I gave a complete dossier on them so he wouldn’t think I was going to cheat on him with them.

I loathe Logan. Everything about him to me screams a manipulative selfish jerk. Getting consent from Rory wasn’t about her but about covering his own ass. It was him that saw Rory as a possession. The Berkin bag being a good example. Rory had no idea what was so special about it until Emily told her. After finding that out Rory then began to thought he must really love/care about me if he’s buying me something this exclusive and special and “unique”. The same with the rocket when Logan went to England. It was obscure enough of a reference in her/their life that it kept her thinking about him while he was gone and while he didn’t make her feel bad about not knowing the reference right away he did treat a bit like a child or a pet when she did realize the reference for the gift. Logan offered Rory a similar danger to Jess but there was also a safety net that came with Logan. Everything about Logan was “I’m not a horrible person really, I’m a nice guy that just enjoys manipulating people until they see things my way because my way is the only way.” The hissy fit Logan had after meeting Jess and then took Rory standing up for her very personally showed me how he didn’t care about her and just wanted to manipulate her into fitting into his world and if he finished doing that, he would have dropped her because what made Rory unique and special would be gone and no longer the girl he fell in love and then blame all the changes on her and make her feel like garbage until she promised to change and then it would be too late and he would be off to find a new girl he could control. That’s why he went through so many girls so quick. They were all too easy to do what he said and Rory was a challenge to him.

Jess had Rory on a bit of pedestal. He didn’t think he was every going to measure up to society’s standards of being good enough for Rory. No one wanted to see how smart he was unless society said he was smart. No one listened to Jess or took the time to get to know him except Rory. He saw in Rory her need for adventure. Her idol is Christiane Amanpour who was CNN Senior War Correspondent at one time. He gave her that bit of adventure and didn’t ask for anything in return accept to keep talking to him rather than at him. Rory was his anchor and stability unlike his mother or Luke. When his life was completely falling apart he went to her because he believed with her in his life that he could do anything. What makes Keg!Max! scary is that how Jess was behaving was very unlike Jess. Jess was never so open and vulnerable to a person as he was with Rory and he was scared. I believe in a way, he wanted Rory to hate him to mirror the self-loathing he had so he could be justified in his hate for himself. That he really is the worthless person society wants to paint him as. Once he was set adrift, he found in himself the person that Rory always believed he could be.

Thanks for giving a counter point in favor of Jess.

If season seven is taken into consideration, I would agree with you on Logan. I don’t take season seven into consideration, as even Lauren Graham has commented on out of character many of the parts from season seven is:

“Christopher [Hayden] and I got married in that season. When we came back to do [the revival], I say something about having been married or somebody says it to me, and I was like, ‘I was never married.’ I forgot,”

For Logan, season seven was one/third of what defined him to viewers. (Worst for April, for who it was one/half of what defined her.) If the writers were that far off with Lorelai, who they knew for three times as long as they knew Logan, I didn’t trust them to get any of the show right, so for me, season seven did not happen.

Now, the Berkin bag did happen in season six, as did the scene with Jess (one of two scenes where Logan is shown jealous), followed by the time apart/break-up. I did think about how I would feel to come home early to find my husband about to get dinner with an old fling I didn’t even know about, and I tried to figure out how long they had not talked between the fight and Thanksgiving, as that would give Logan more or less forgiveness with the sleeping with others thing. As for his casual sex, I think it was really just casual sex, not going through girls. To go through girlfriends, you would have to actually consider them girlfriends, and such. I read those differently than you did, which is fine.

Jess got Rory, and Rory was for Jess what no one else was. I love who he became, but still don’t like him and Rory as a couple, I prefer them as friends. I just did not find his actions in Keg!Max! out of character, as Jess was not great at setting his emotions aside to see how other people were effected by them yet (including those for Rory). Again, this is an area where we came to different conclusions.

I totally agree with everything you just said, Tina. And I do not understand how people can look past all of Logan’s manipulations, his ego, selfishness, condescension, privileged attitue, and bullying just because he was (sometimes) nice to Rory. He had money and knew how to use it to get what he wanted. He treated her like a child, and like his play thing, and if she had married him I’d bet he would have become an angry, resentful alcoholic that either abused her in some way or cheated on her repeatedly (or both). No one can keep up those grand gestures for that long, and with his sense of entitlement, he would have expected something in return eventually.

Logan played to Rory’s self-centered, entitled side, and to me the show should have dropped him after just one season and moved on after she learned a lesson about that aspect of her life.

Btw, notice how Rory goes back to Logan (in the new season) when she’s floundering? I don’t know exactly how long they were sort of together again for, but I believe it was right around the time her life started to fall apart. That should say something about their relationship.

I don’t think Jess encouraging Rory in healthy ways is being controlling. Your loved ones are supposed to help you bring you up when you are down, and tell you you’re being an idiot when you drop out of Yale to be in the DAR. And, comparing a 16-ish year old kid that was kicked out of the house by his own mother to Logan, is not really a fair comparison (not to mention comparing a 15 year old Dean to a 20-something year old Logan). Of course Jess is going to have some major issues, but despite all of that he still made something of himself by himself, and turned into an encouraging, responsible, fairly wise adult. While Logan is still acting like a spoiled rich college kid, up to the same shenanigans with his other spoiled college buddies, and had to work for daddy because he couldn’t or didn’t want to make a life for himself.

I know this post was before the new season, but I actually would have said the same thing about them!

Btw, I’m not team Jess, or team Dean, but I don’t loathe them like I do Logan. I hope she finds someone that is both sweet and encouraging, that can point out her mistakes in a loving way, and doesn’t throw a hissy fit when things don’t go his way.

So much more to say, but I think that’s more than enough for now!

I think it is a testament to the acting of both Milo Ventimiglia and Matt Czuchry that people are as passionate about those to characters (rather they hate them or love them, people tend to respond to them).

For the most part, there is not much for me to add that I haven’t already added in response to Tina’s comment, so you are informed on my arguments, and find them not strong enough. This article is from before the revival, and complicated with ASP’s treatment of season seven in the revival. She has stated that she has not watched season seven, and that she was disappointed that Lane had kids in it, as it was something she could not largely ignore in putting the story lines back to where she wanted them. Her methods of putting the story lines back are, um, problematic, across the board. But that is a discussion for another time, which I would like to put more thought behind before I put it out there.

One thing I will comment on is that when it comes to respect, I would expect the same from my five-year-old-daughter as I would from her when she is an adult. I would also expect the same from a boy as I would a girl. “Boys will be boys” is how we end up with a 20-something-year-old who thinks it is okay to have a “ego, selfishness, condescension, privileged attitude, and bullying.” Failure to stop pushing for sex when someone says “wait” is never okay, I don’t care the age of the people involved.

That said, there is some truth to the fact that all boyfriends have major flaws, and I respect that you read the actions of Logan different than I do. I also respect that you put a different weight on Jess’s actions than I do.

I had a conversation on Facebook with someone who felt I was too harsh on Dean, and I wish it would have happened here, to give people another take on the issue.

Tina power, I understand where you’re coming from with Logan however, I can strongly disagree! Logan asked for consent and understood when he made the mistake of ‘cheating’ and apologized. When he broke up with her from his sister he seemed like a coward but tried to win her back, he thought it was just a silly experiment that failed but then he realised that he couldn’t live without her and he loves her! In the final season, he proposes and Rory said no thus was not because she stopped loving him it was because she new that she would have to leave and the fact that she had a strong bond with her mother prevented her from doing that. In my opinion, Logan was the best boyfriend as he bought Rory anything. When he got her the Berkin Bag (a bag that expensive) Rory felt that he loved her and told him how she felt about him, Logan then replied with “wow, the lady who sold me tge bag said this was gonna happen.” Rory then relied with something like “you don’t have to reply yet, I fact you don’t at all.” And Logan tild her a story of saying he loved other girls and not meaning it. This implied he is kind because he didn’t say it back just to say it, he didn’t say it back because he wasn’t ready and simply didn’t want to ruin the relationship between them although he made thing awkward when he said it while she was trying to get into her house. Thank you for reading this and honestly I think Jess was a jerk and u agree with on with dean.

This is good food for thought! I’ve watched the show for years and this perspective never occurred to me. What I have based my boyfriend opinion on is who did Rory ever pursue? Most of them were pursuing her for the majority of the relationship. However, with Jess, she made a grand gesture towards him when she takes the bus to NYC, skipping school. And also when she heads to Philly years later to see him at the book release. I don’t see any other examples with Dean or Logan where she made similar pursuits. For this reason alone, I’ve been Team Jess. But your consent point is really challenging my opinion! Thanks for sharing.

Wow, grand gesture huh? That is also an interesting interpretation! I had never considered anything like that before. People do note that Rory has never cheated on Jess but has cheated with Jess, but on the other hand Rory has also turned Jess down a lot. It’s difficult to see where they stand, but Rory definitely does stretch herself the most with Jess.

Looking at who Rory seemed o want the most is a good way to think about it. It was funny, when I was younger, I liked Jess better, but found I liked Rory and Logan together better, even when I didn’t really like Logan. I didn’t understand why until I was older. Funny how those things work.

I think it’s hard to judge who is better as a couple, as people have said, Jess was a messed up teen when he and Rory actually dated- they only dated for half a season because of ENDLESS Dean drama before Jess was promptly written out of the show for an attempt at a spin off that never happened! That’s largely the reason for the scene in the bedroom if you ask me- they needed a reason for him to take off without talking to Rory, other than Luke kicking him out. The potential of Rory and Jess as adults, adult Jess as an author/publisher, is so promising! Potentially you can imagine their intense bookish connection as teens without Jess’s emotional issues from a messed up childhood. Fans were denied a chance to properly explore them as a couple, which is probably why people idealise Jess because all we have then, other then A brief season three relationship, is season 2 where they seem so connected, and have so much chemistry, but the idea that Jess was this ‘bad boy’ kept them apart (I always hated how Lorelai put so much pressure on Rory to stay with Dean in Season 2/3 when it was obvious the relationship had gone stale.) The problem with Logan and Rory is we’ve seen them together as adults, in both the revival and season 6/7 and it just doesn’t work. He brings out the worst in her the selfishness and privilege. We have no curiosity about that relationship because it’s played out. Personally I could never forgive someone sleeping with three women in a like a months period of taking a break.

No, you think Rory&Logan have been played out. And you have no curiosity about the the relationship. I personally think the surface of their potential has barely been touched.

Plus in the revival, Logan listens to Rory’s issues and gives her encouragement, support and his own opinion on them. Logan isn’t the one that brings the selfish and privilege out. He’s just sharing the part of his life they agreed to share. Her actions are her own.And to the final night (until he finds out about the child) he allows her, her own brain, her own choices and her own right to consent.

But Jess hasn’t seen her in 4+ years but he makes sure to tell her what she should do. Yes, it’s just her career this time but he tells her she’s not writing a spec script and that she should write a book and he tells her what to write the book about. He doesn’t talk with her about what she’s passionate about. He tells her what she’s passionate about. Jess is a good guy but he still doesn’t allow Rory her own mind.

I couldn’t agree more. Whenever people ask me why I like Logan better I’m going to show the this article.

Thanks Juliana, that is so kind to say.

“When he sees her do something he thinks is out of character for her, he will call her on it, not because he wants her to be true to herself”

This is what we call: a stab in the dark. There is no basis for that statement other than your own bias. In fact we have the creator of the show herself confirming that Jess understands Rory very well.

In Jess’ situation with Rory and consent, yes he pushed it, but after he saw Rory wouldn’t relent, he let her go. Clearly he made a bad choice, but not necessarily a deal breaker.

With Logan however, you commit the most egregious error. You omit when Logan tried to elicit consent unwillingly in the most sacred act of all: marriage. He used an ultimatum to try to force Rory into marrying him right then and there, when she clearly wasn’t ready. Now you can argue that ASP did not write that scene, which is true, but it is not out of the realm of believable behavior for Logan, simply because he is used to/adept at throwing his weight around to get his way.

It is nice to meet you and welcome to the site. Thanks for sharing your thoughts with our readers.

First, of course this article is written from my bias, there is no way around it, just like your comment was written from you bias. What I love about the conversations with people from differing opinions is that they add more light into a topic, and give people more to think about.

First, what basis do I base Jess’s reason’s for calling her out on things? Well, the easiest example is his visits to Yale. The first visit, he begs her to quit Yale and move to New York with him, the second visit, he calls her out for dropping out of Yale. For me, the two do not coincide unless he is not as concerned about her being true to herself as people often believe, simply because he gets her. If you see it differently, then you see it differently. As you pointed out, we all have our biases.

In Jess’ situation with Rory and consent, even though he backed off, it is a deal breaker for me. Other people might draw the line in a different place.

That said, I actually love Jess’ development over the series.

With Logan, I did not include anything from season seven. As I stated at the end of the article, this had nothing to do with Logan specifically, but with the differences I saw in the characters across the board. ASP didn’t even watch the seventh season, and Lauren Graham blocked out a major plot line for Lorelai because it seemed so out of character, and we know that ASP has put Logan back in London, his father is in the revival, and the Life and Death Brigade is in the revival, I think I can safely ignore season seven as a whole.

I know that some people put him not wanting to commit to a relationship, and “forcing” Rory to do the casual sex thing for a while, as manipulation, and getting her to do something outside of who she was. I also know that many people felt that his attempt to win her back was also manipulation. To me, these were not. Logan always communicated with Rory where he stood on things, and Rory believed that silence worked to tell him things. Once she told him where her lines were, he didn’t cross them.

That said, season seven represents one/third of Logan’s screen time. If you choose to take season seven as part of the story as ASP wanted it told, then, yah, my article would be off.

I just want to bring up Jess’s first visit to Yale. He had JUST been handed over the self help love books. Considering the confidence it gave Luke to persue Lorelai, I took Jess’s proposition as him going for it, as Luke did with Lor. I agree with several other points of the article. Curious your take now after how Logan was in the revival?

As someone who experienced something very similar to what Jess did to Rory, watching that scene made my skin crawl. It wasn’t just that he was ignoring her obvious discomfort and requests to stop, it’s how he treated her afterwards, making her feel like she was at fault. She ran away thinking that she had done something wrong for not wanting to sleep with him. That was FAR from okay, and it really irritates me to see people worshipping Jess in this fandom. His development happened offscreen so it’s meaningless to me.

I definitely agree with you that Logan is the one who respected her boundaries and desires. It wasn’t just in terms of sex or romance, but he actually listened to her when she told him what she did and didn’t like in their relationship. He not only listened, he respected how she felt and made an effort to adjust his behavior. I was astonished by how well-written their relationship was because often on tv, you’ll have a lot of mess ups and big reunions but nothing gets fixed. Rory and Logan are rare.

Hi Elle, Thanks for the comment.

I’ve always thought that off screen development was not nearly as important as on screen actions. While I like Jess as he interacts with Luke over time and even like the latest version of Jess seen in the revival, I don’t want to see him with Rory ever again. My desire is that he accepts that his actions were wrong, that going back to a person who you behaved that way towards is not a good idea, and to start new with someone he treats better. If I had a similar experience as you had, I would probably just want Jess written out of the show.

Rory and Logan are rare, and that is a shame. And you are right, it goes much deeper than sex or romance. I think few people really get what makes this relationship so well written and so unusual, as most people don’t see past Logan’s (and to a lesser extent Rory’s) privilege.

Hi, reading your opinion on Rory’s relationship is very interesting, and I have to say that I agree with you.

And it is very heartbreaking to see Rory and Kogan’s relationship, either from the original series except the 7th, completed original series, or the revival.

I know you did not include 7th season to write this opinion, but I really want to ask your deeper thought on 7th season when Logan proposed Rory. It seemed really out of character Logan always ask Rory’s opinion and not forcing his opinion to her. He even said I will factor you in, but you need to not include me in your decision. So, why rushing the proposal? Why it has to be all or nothing? Are there any reasons we do not know? Did something happen between Logan and his family regarding the marriage? I just cannot get these questions out of my mind.

Sorry if my questions are out of topic here. But i hope i can get some other theories from GG’s fans!

I can’t help but disagree with this article. Not in its entirety, but on the subject of Logan.

I completely agree with you on the Dean portions, and almost entirely on the Jess point, but I feel like Logan was more subtle with how he treated consent. While Jess and Dean both would get angry, upset, or into all out verbal fights over things that Rory did not want to do (Speaking of which, keep in mind, she often tried to make them do things that they didn’t want to do. i.e. Making Jess go a party/dinner/anywhere, and making Dead go to the coming out party/dinner/not beating Jess to death with his caveman arms) the thing is, they were all teenagers, and believe or not, most of this is actually pretty normal and healthy. It’s good to know boundaries, and it’s understandable to be upset when you feel shunned. (i.e. Rory not telling Dean that she loved him/not going with Jess) Their reactions were understandable because the situation caused them emotional pain.

Dean has just professed love, and Jess was finally taking a chance, trying to find his happiness, and both were shut down. That hurts, and even though Rory wasn’t wrong to react the way she did, it’s still understandable that they would respond in a hurt manner. The interesting thing to me, in both of these cases is that Rory is the one more likely to actually make them do something that they don’t want to, so you don’t often get to see her reaction when she doesn’t get what she wants. Which, I think is why their reactions stand out more.

The one instance here that I feel can’t really be argued for, is the Jess and Rory scene in the bedroom. He clearly wasn’t listening to her. True, she didn’t say no, and true, he did stop, but she had to push him off to make that happen. That’s not okay, ever. Now, from experience, I do know that “wait” can often mean that the person just wants to shift positions or take off their clothes, or any variety of things really. It’s not a no, it’s wait. But Jess didn’t really wait… he kinda just persisted.

From a character perspective, I guess you can say that he needed to feel something that wasn’t his messed up life, and that the two of them had obviously discussed it before, but that is not consent. The thing I do take issue with in your article, however, is him leaving afterwards. I don’t think he did that because she wouldn’t have sex with him. I think he did that because he knew he messed up. He knew he was messed up. The second after she leaves the room, he immediately blames himself, he knows he was wrong. He left because he hurt her, that’s what I believe. That’s why he never spoke when he called. It’s why he finally professed his love to her months later and ran. He couldn’t get his mind off of her, but he knew he was still messed up. And that’s why, when he finally had some hope, after using the self help stuff from Luke, he went to ask her to come with him. He wanted a better life. He finally felt like he could have that, not be messed up. Like he was good enough. And he was rightfully rejected.

He’s a self-centered, alcoholic, spoiled, irresponsible, patronizing sociopath.

He, above all others, only does things to get what he wants. He’s not overt about how he does it. No arguments, really. No ultimatums, (until season 7 but, like you said, never happened) no. His form of control is more akin to Edward Cullen. He starts in a very Tristan-like manner (who I firmly believe this character was originally going to be, but due to One Tree Hill, they couldn’t get Chad Michael Murray, so they just created a new character) by rarely calling her by her real name. Instead, he goes with “Ace” which could be taken as sweet, or incredibly condescending. (Mary, anyone?) To me, the name “Ace” is him saying “Aww, you’re so good at stuff aren’t ya!” before patting her head like a dog. I mean, look at how he acts when she brings problems to him, he literally says “Aww, Ace.” and then hugs her. Repeatedly.
Let’s start with consent by talking about their first in-depth interaction. He blind folds her into the woods, refuses to tell her anything that’s going on, gives her a tent to sleep in (without informing her that the trip would be overnight beforehand) and makes her wear a dress when she wakes up. She doesn’t argue with any of this because, according to him, if she wants her story, she has to do all of it, including convincing her to jump from a tower that they weren’t 100 percent certain was safe. Her first response when asked? “No.” Then Logan convinced her to do it. He heard “No.” and convinced her to do it because “it would make her a better journalist”. This is the definition of not caring about consent. Just because he was more clever and didn’t get angry, doesn’t mean that he didn’t do everything he could to get his way, against her wishes.

This interaction, of course, causes her to second guess all of her life choices, which leads to everything else that happens eventually. But first, let’s look more at how Logan controls her.

In the next episode, Rory is talking to a douchewad who clearly just wants to sleep with her and Logan “saves her” in the most cliché way possible. By wrapping his arm around her in a possessive manner and claiming to be her boyfriend, which she thanks him for. Think back to Tristan, he treated Rory much in the same way as the douche guy in this scene, yet Rory always knew how to handle him. But now she needs saving? Odd. Logan then steals some alcohol and gets her drunk with a bunch of his friends, which leads directly to her and Dean breaking up. Especially since he insists on going outside with her to meet her boyfriend and brings his entire entourage. Do you really think that wasn’t a deliberate move?

And of course, who’s there to comfort her the second Dean leaves? With more alcohol, (which, keep in mind she refused earlier that evening) and another arm wrapping for good measure. Skip down two episodes and he embarrasses her in class in front of a student who she is supposed to be showing around school. Later on, he finds out that she wants to meet an author and drops the line “It’s boring. I just go, take a date so I have someone to talk to and bail.” Thus planting that idea that if she’s his date, she can meet the author. And this manipulative behavior is constant in nearly every episode he’s in, leading to him to convince her to have a stringless relationship with him (which of course leads to them nearly having sex at Emily and Richard’s recommitment ceremony) and while yes, he does make sure she’s okay with it, the reason it happens stems from him asserting how unadventurous she is. Then there’s him accepting her offer to hang out, yet forgetting to mention that it’s poker night and that there are tons of people over. This also seemed deliberate.

I could go on and on about his influence in her life, things he’s convinced her of, the way he treats people and responsibility, how his offer to stand up to his father and agreement not to is more a show of his cowardice than listening to her, and on and on if you want. I just realized how long this thing is getting though so I cut it off relatively early into his arch in season 5. There’s still a whole other season and a half to talk about with this guy, but suffice it to say, he’s manipulative. He’s the Edward Cullen, the one who “knows what she really wants” and convinces her of it. And the worst part? He never really changes. Just look at how he looks at her. Dean looks infatuated, Jess looks in love, Logan looks amused.
All of these things I’ve mentioned (and many, many more that I didn’t, arguably far more important things) were under the guise that it’s “an adventure!” or “fun!” And do we even want to get into A Year in the Life?
My point here is that he doesn’t ask her to do anything. He convinces her that she wants to do it. He doesn’t argue about consent because he finds it easier to sway it. Simply, he gets what he wants. Like a sociopath. Dean is old-fashioned. Jess is anti-social. Logan is the devil.

Fully agree with every bit of that eadpevially the last statement lol

Logan called Rory ace for Ace Reporter. It wasn’t a sexual virginal thing like Mary. And he called her Rory quite often.

And Logan did talk Rory into going up the ladder in You Jump I jump Jack but he talked to her and made his case. He talked about reporters who took risks for stories. He piqued her interest. Rory was already looking to be more gung-ho as a reporter because her coworker got an article reprinted in the New York times.

And Logan never makes Rory’s decisions for her. (Not even in the revival). He does present his case. If anything he’s a businessman. Not a sociopath.

The grandparents’ party left Rory in a position she felt she couldn’t leave or get out of situations she could have usually. It was her grandparents who put in in that position. Not Logan.

Logan didn’t force Rory to drink so I don’t know why he brought that up. Rory agreed to go to the pool house on her own. And even with all that alcohol, nobody forced sex on her. Not even a kiss. Logan comforted her like a friend. But yes him going outside caused Dean to question his relationship and again Dean broke up with Rory.

As for Logan talking about the famous writer and then choosing not to take Rory. It was because she was special and he could see she wasn’t the type of girl he usually hooked up with. He never promised her anything and made the decision that even though he liked her, it wasn’t a road he was going to go down. Then at the vow renewal, it was Rory who offered a causal relationship. After talking with her dad, Rory was trying to be like her mom and go for what she wanted. She wanted Logan. Logan didn’t force anything on her. She made her move.

Logan liked Rory. Was he supposed to say no just cause he should make her choices for her? Rory wasn’t an innocent Virgin at this time. She chose causal. And she chose when she wanted more than casual.

Love this point of view and agree completely. I did think about this in regards to Logan’s character and always loved that about him. He was rich and privileged, but didn’t use that position to try to coerce Rory in any way. Great article!

ok so im 16 years old and love gilmore girls so much but anyways i think its really hard to actually choose between the guys cuz theyre great in their own ways
dean is really kind and sweet and jess is fun and got that bad boy thing going but he has a soft side especially for rory and then theres logan whos a fun risk taker and very determined so like i said its really hard to choose which guy i liked best

I personally don’t like any of the boyfriends! The scene when Rory goes back to Yale and Logan will not let her break up with him really makes me itch. It’s been a while since I’ve watched that episode, but it made me very uncomfortable when he barges in and has to convince her to stay with him, “c’mon Ace!” is repeated too much throughout the show and makes me really question how much respect Logan has for woman. Also, I’m never truly convinced that Rory enjoyed Logan’s lifestyle. Maybe its just character growth, but is the girl who watched movies with take out food and her best friend during spring break really the same girl who is constantly partying with Logan? Dean was possessive and though Jess comes around as a adult he was a little punk as a teen and needed a mentor – not a girlfriend. My biggest beef with Gilmore Girls is that we have to watch these guys for so many episodes (which has lead me to this thread!), it is my opinion that home girl has terrible taste in men.

I liked Dean when I was younger. When I recently rewatched it, I changed my mind completely. There are two scenes were you have Dean and Lorelai talking about Rory and his treatment of her as if she was a little child.
To me this shows how he dies not treat her as his equal/ does not support her independence. I hate this scene.
This is not exactely on consent, but it feels like it is a similar topic.

This is way late as compared to the other comments but while I am a fan of Dean simply because of Jared’s later role as Sam in Supernatural, I never liked Jess because his early punk a** actions ruined him for me forever. Now I haven’t quite gotten to Logan yet so I must respectfully sit his season’s out but, has anyone ever thought about Rory and her role in all of this? As a young man, admitting you love someone and them not saying it back is a serious shot in the gut. Imagine what it was like when you were a kid. Now she was in no way obligated to say it back but after that, it was never the same. When Jess shows up however, instead of talking to Dean about what is going on, she keeps him in the dark, she doesn’t understand her feelings? Groovy. However, she is mature enough to know she doesn’t want to say she lives him so she is darn well mature enough to realize she is dragging him along. She continues to drag him along until he finally says enough is enough. Jess is a piece of trash who essentially forces her into sex with brutish passive aggressiveness which to me, warrants broken knees. (Father of two girls myself. I am a little bias.) But I am assuming, Rory is going to be one of those girls who expects people to change for her while everyone should be expecting her to maintain her own identity. I guess I will have to wait and see. If I can make it past the Jess episodes.